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This entry was posted on Saturday, December 31st, 2005 at 6:14 and is filed under Hardware. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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Saturday, December 31, 2005
Easy, now! I’m just reporting what I saw and nothing more. Do not shoot the messenger.
Last night while shopping at the Apple Store in San Jose at the Valley Fair shopping center, I noticed a young Apple employee in fatigue shorts, black Apple shirt, and Elvis Costello-like glasses asking customers if they were paying for their purchases via credit card. When he came up to me and took my product and credit card, I watched closely. He was using a Symbol PPT8800 to perform my transaction. I mean it makes sense, the Apple Stores use the PD8500 at the cash registers for credit and debit transactions, so why not stick with Symbol for roaming transactions? But while the PD8500 is a mere slave and doesn’t require a full out operating system, the PPT8800 does. And while the program used to make the transaction completely covers up what lays beneath it, I knew what was there. Microsoft!
Folks, sad to say, the PPT8800 portable unit uses, as does all Symbol units, Windows CE or Windows Mobile. Yup, what the Pocket PC is made of. In fact, most Symbol units just run the plain-Jane Pocket PC 2003 SE (or now Windows Mobile 5.0) with its specific software running on top of it as a mere application. Shocking enough, the main Apple Store, just 10 minutes away from the Cupertino headquarters of Apple, is using a Microsoft product to help the holiday traffic get through. Stunning, no?
You know, in all fairness, I think this shows Apple’s pretty big that it can overlook this fact to get customers out of the store faster. It really takes a “big man” to do something like this and I respect them for it. But still, a bit surprising.
I bet the Elvis dude had no clue what he was scanning my Visa on. 
December 31st, 2005 at 11:54
I’m not sure I get your point. Are you expecting your readers to be disappointed? Disillusioned? OK… you say that you were just surprised. Why? As a former Apple employee, I can tell you that Apple uses Microsoft products throughout the company. And at Microsoft, Apple hardware and software a pretty common.
It is only the most naive among us who would thing that one of these companies always has the best solution, and that the companies themselves don’t recognize that fact.
December 31st, 2005 at 12:46
I think my point was that, one I was surprised to find a MS OS in an Apple Store. After Steve Jobs had that books pulled from the publisher of the tell-tale biography of him last year, it just seemed like he wouldn’t allow such a device in his store. It’s an Apple Store…not a computer store.
I know Apple’s campus has Microsoft product on it though I’m sure Creative Zen’s are frowned upon there just as iPods are in Redmond.
Finally, talk to any Apple die-hard and they’ll speak of Microsoft with disgust. What kind of impression will they have of their beloved store when they know Windows CE is there?
I guess those were my points. Me? I don’t care. I think every company has something to offer and while I think Apple does it better most of the time, they just can’t do it all all of the time. I did Palm OS for a while, but it became dated. Windows CE still isn’t as stable, but it’s got more of what I need. Same with Windows XP. I’d rather use OS X daily, but I can’t because there’s too much missing from it. When OSx86 comes out, then that will change.
December 31st, 2005 at 16:40
So, what was the point? Some people think Windows is a security risk, which is never going to be corrected…. as the last decade illustrates.
I don’t know much on details, but the Apple Store, retail stores, have to compete fairly with all retailers. So, must sell at suggested retail price, no sales! It’s operated buying at “distributor” cost, and needs to profit on sales ( What the whole company earns is separate ) iPod was developed with a cell phone OS, from Pixo. Apple had Newton, etc. but why reinvent the wheel for MP3 players? Could Apple do better? Not in 6 months from concept to market….
I would find these truths self evident. Only improve if you can do it a LOT better, and the costs are similar to standard solutions.
Again, stores are operated as a separate, company. I know there was some issues with credit transactions shutting down for hours…. at all stores….. which is not a good idea over x mas, if it can be avoided.
You can’t move x-mas, it’s the part of a year which earns all profits in retail…. and maybe you heard, iPod was top 3 sales @ Amazon – Lot’s of people want this stuff….
If the credit card machines break, what would you do with the last 2 days of holiday shopping??? Get ANYTHING that works fast, and later, switch/ fix/ replace whatever it was that broke…. Just like hiring an extra 200 people for xmas season is cheaper than losing 1000’s of sales….
However; I would not take it as Apple endorsing it. It’s a cheap solution, and competing with retail, must keep costs down. MS loses $$ every year on every division – except OS / Office. They have paid people to use WinCE vs. Palm etc. for many years…. Which would be lower cost….
I believe the breakdown for hours will mean a change in this regard…. but again, it’s like saying CompUSA uses x for credit cards… So, Apple doesn’t run it! It’s modeled on Gap, and Micky Drexler who was on board, explaining how he saved them from death….
Whatever, maybe that’s why the system went down?
I don’t know what the choices are… but there cant be too many credit card machine options…..LOL
If Apple had Not Invented Here Syndrome still… we’d be waiting for the 1st OS X release still… not on BSD Kernel, no open source web browser….. no crazy marketing blitz….
Unremarkable
December 31st, 2005 at 18:38
I think Lao Tzu got a little defensive, but a couple good points were made. It is indeed fortunate that Apple is not bound by a “not invented here” philosophy, which is a very good thing.
Sven’s Creative Zen analogy doesn’t hold water… Apple has a pretty good line of portable music players, but not a mobile checkout device or a widely-accepted office suite.
Sven, I’d be with you all the way if Apple were selling a Dell/WinXP combination or a Creative Zen. That would be odd.
As far as die hard Apple users, I consider myself one of them… but only as long as I feel Apple offers better solutions to my problems. And I do, at times, speak of Microsoft with disgust. What I do understand is that things like this rarely present themselves in black and white. It is in the shades of grey where things get really interesting. But that sort of thinking is more difficult to present (read: more work) and won’t generate as many page views.
January 1st, 2006 at 4:10
Finally, talk to any Apple die-hard and they’ll speak of Microsoft with disgust. What kind of impression will they have of their beloved store when they know Windows CE is there?
I’m not an Apple die-hard but, like most people, I do view Microsoft with disgust.
Was the point of your story to incite disgust among Apple die-hards because their favorite computer company was using an OS from a convicted monopolist felon instead of a home-brew solution?
Or were you just trying to say that if the Apple store uses Microsoft products, the rest of us should as well?
January 1st, 2006 at 8:11
So, it’s Wince running a Java app. So what?
January 1st, 2006 at 8:25
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1433
Beat you to the punch by a few days and even the photo they provide clearly shows the ‘Start bar’ thing. Also read: http://www.ifoapplestore.com/2005/12/27/ipod-express-concept-gets-mixed-grade/ to hear about the glitches these awesome Win machines were having.
January 1st, 2006 at 11:52
I use both Mac and Windows machines. doesn’t everybody?
About security. Let’s get something out in the open. Apple publishes almost as many “security updates” as Microsoft. The only reason that Microsoft gets the blame for security wholes is the sheer number of computers out there running Windows. When (or if) Mac ever dominates the market the security holes will be there. Hackers and other malicious types will spend their energy trying to find them.
About the clitches come on – what software (or hardware) is clitch free. The latest PowerBook my company purchased was dead-on-delivery. The thing booted into the setup routine crashed and that was the end of it. Does Apple suck? no, it was just a lemon.
Apple fanatics give it up. Windows fanatics give it up. Go with the best hardware/software that fits your needs (and personality).
Can’t we all just get along?
January 1st, 2006 at 14:17
While I disagree with rob’s security issue comparison between Mac OS X and Windows, security was not among the original points made by Sven in his post. Where rob and I do agree is that Sven’s original points had no merit.
I rarely use Windows because I don’t have any compelling need for it. I rarely use other Microsoft products because I’ve found alternatives which I prefer. These are dispassionate decisions based on my needs, cost of the products in question, ROI, etc.
Of course, by posting responses, we actually add weight to the original arguments made by Sven. That’s the beauty of a successful blog: one needn’t be right; one simply needs to stir the pot.
January 2nd, 2006 at 1:48
This is the dumbest post I’ve read in 2005. Apple sells Microsoft Office in Apple Stores. Apple produces Windows software and hardware. WTF is the point of the post???
January 2nd, 2006 at 9:13
PWB, I guess you’ve seen Windows being used in many Apple Stores before, then. So ya, I guess this post would be lame for you. The rest of us have never seen any Windows OPERATING SYSTEM being ran inside an Apple Store, which Apple has made negative comments about the Windows OS in the past. So I guess that would be pretty lame to post this if you were void of that knowledge.
Drink a cup of coffee and welcome to 2006!
January 2nd, 2006 at 10:40
I guess I need to clarify my point a bit better. Yes, Apple uses Microsoft products and yes it’s the other way around, too. It’s no biggy to buy a Microsoft InteliMouse for my Mac mini but I can’t get Windows XP to run on it (and you won’t be able to buy OS X 10.5 to run on a Dell, either.)
My point is the operating system used by the scanner is Windows. Check any where in that entire Apple Store and try to show me where I can buy a Pocket PC running Windows CE on it. I can buy a Palm, but sure can’t get any Pocket PC at any Apple Store I know of. In fact, even if I buy the Pocket PC elsewhere, guess what? I can’t sync it to my Mac. Why? Because OS X has no way to do so. It lets me sync my Palm Tungsten T3 no problem in iSync, but hey, I have to BUY a third party software solution to get the Pocket PC to sync. Apple doesn’t support Window CE.
There are Palm solutions to do what the Apple Store is doing. Why didn’t Apple get that solution? So, it can purchase a device that runs an OS it doesn’t find proper to sale to its customers? THAT’S my point, people. Stop looking at the trees and look at the entire apple orchard.
January 2nd, 2006 at 12:56